Yeah. Penn officials, of course, have said the interview was appropriate. She thought that he had been very quickly removed from the building. And so, yes, if the student, then, is no longer useful, I could imagine it turning. They had done their own investigation again, quotes on investigation and then I had submitted over a hundred pages of documents to them. Yeah, it was, things like that where I simplified all of these foster kids that youre living with a biological family who have kids, which I would say are foster siblings. [2], Fierceton supplied the trust's investigators with her medical and court records from the mid-2010s as well as letters from 26 peopleteachers at Whitfield, the three Penn faculty members who had written her Rhodes recommendation letters, vouching for her abuse claims and saying she had never misrepresented herself. While Kerr noted that Fierceton's three weeks in the hospital was far longer than might be expected given the bruises that led to her admission, she also noted the absence of injuries to Fierceton's back despite having reportedly fallen or being thrown downstairs. There were so many there are, I guess I should say so many moving pieces. So I was like: OK, fine. What happened the night you ended up in foster care? But it doesnt mean you were always low-income, just that you are now. We started building this, and this is exactly who we built it for. Instead, I want to talk more about what this says about the system, that something so seemingly irrational could be produced by this system, and actually could be predicted to be produced by this system in some ways. Her mother was a doctor and Fierceton attended a prep school, but she was. Thats the reality of it, but we dont want to think of it that way. MF: Its hard to say. She kept a journal, writing that she was in so much pain from her bruised ribs that she could barely breathe. Like you said, I was called into a meeting. A petition to the county circuit court to have the arrest expunged was granted in a one-page order that attributed the arrest to "false information". Like you said, theres also the cultural stereotype of like Orphan Annie and Oliver Twist of what these kinds of kids are supposed to look like that starts so early on in, and deep in the culture or media that we encounter that I think really ingrains that into people. RG: Mhmm. Anything interesting in that that you noticed? Fierceton's mother's supporters have maintained that her daughter was an emotionally manipulative girl who injured herself and fabricated other aspects of the abuse in order to become a more appealing candidate for admission to an Ivy League college such as the University of Pennsylvania. And where are you at school? RG: And so when you applied for your masters in social worker or sociology? How many people kind of fit that category that you interacted with, and how many kind of fit closer to your category, not just in your own interactions, but also in your research? And do you know Linda Tirado? The fact that they even challenged that really does expose a lot of whats going on here because I assume in their mind, theyre saying: Well, she went to this private school; she had a nice house; her mom probably drove a nice car maybe you even drove a decent car! She is suing Penn for defamation, arguing its real goal in investigating her was to discredit her as a witness in and retaliate for a wrongful death suit filed against the university by the widow of a fellow student which Fierceton instigated. [2] Katie Couric had Fierceton as a guest on her podcast a week later. Period." Did you go into foster care? And again, people, including Penn administrators, have the perception of I think the stereotype and my friend Anea Moore, whos a Rhodes Scholar and graduate of Penn who founded Penn first or co-founded it had a really great quote in The New Yorker about we arent all, quote-unquote something along the lines of like impoverished, inner city kids who go to crumbling public schools as the wider media portrays us to be. [2][4], After she had recovered from her seizure incident earlier that year, fellow students told her how difficult it had been for first responders to get to the basement of Caster Hall, where SP2 is based and holds most of its classes, and how difficult it had been to get her out. Mackenzies critics even began nitpicking how much blood was in her hair while she was in the intensive care unit. I think they do have a richer experience if they have more diversity around them, but that is more the point. A former teacher in elementary school recalled that in one of those calls, Morrison made a reference to an earlier discussion of Fierceton's mental illness; the teacher did not remember any such conversation. . RG: I think for a lot of us, we have to sort of other poverty and abuse and put it in a box, partly, to protect ourselves. In its response to Fierceton's lawsuit, the university says its general counsel talked with Hayes, who said that bringing the charges had been the "biggest mistake" of his career. [2], Morrison's arrest had been reported in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch,[6] where commenters on the online version of the story took her side, speculating that Fierceton was "an entitled brat" who had vengefully fabricated charges that had the potential to end her mother's medical career. Like there is more attention to systemic poverty and trying to keep children in their homes to begin with, I would say, which is important, because if you can keep kids in their homes, then theyre not in the system and facing that foster-to-prison pipeline. It was literally just like: She was arrested and her daughter is hospitalized. Right. So the Rhodes Trust ended up after their quote-investigation, and I submitted all the evidence, they ended up still recommending that my scholarship be rescinded, uh, but I had another opportunity to respond to their report, which I absolutely wanted to do. [1]:95, Judge Kristine Allen Kerr ultimately held for Morrison. And like you said, like, yes, obviously I was looking in a mirror, and I knew I was looking in a mirror. RG: Penn didnt respond to a request for comment, but in its response to Mackenzies lawsuit, they write: Penn denies that there are accessibility problems with the Caster Building which contributed to Mackenzies medical emergency or to [Cameron] Drivers death. The court granted Morrison a protection order against her former husband; Fierceton had no relationship with him from that time onward. And if you havent already, please subscribe to the show so you can hear it every week. Again, this is obviously secondhand, because I was unconscious. The mother hired a high-powered attorney and engaged in a local campaign to discredit Mackenzie. The Intercept is an independent nonprofit news outlet. [3] "Mackenzie may have centered certain aspects of her background to the exclusion of othersfor reasons we are certain she feels are validin a way that creates a misimpression," the report said. It recommended the scholarship be rescinded. You know, in my personal experience, there were not very many kids who came from a background like me. And is it somewhat of a defense mechanism that people deploy to protect themselves? [19] The New York Post wrote that "[t]he case exposes the murky underbelly of elite schools like Penn. If we review your medical records, are we going to see you had broken ribs and facial injuries? She got straight A's, served in student government, managed the field hockey team, played varsity soccer, and volunteered to assist with the local Special Olympics. She was one of only 32 high school students selected from a pool of 2300 applicants. And so thats the low-income box. Mackenzie Fierceton was championed as a former foster youth who had overcome an abusive childhood and won a prestigious Rhodes Scholarship. Why would I do that? But I just had a bad feeling and I started to try to find more information. "Was the problem that a child who was placed into foster care and had no contact with her biological mother wasn't actually a first-generation college student? "[25], "I cannot avoid the sense that Mackenzie is being faulted for not having suffered enough", Norton told The New Yorker. At the University of Pennsylvania, she received a bachelor's degree in political science and a master's degree in social work through a combined five-year program. I have some of my own theories, but I want to hear yours. [2], Later that year, after that first foster home turned out to be "chaotic", with Fierceton's foster sibling attempting suicide, she moved to another one. Youre welcome to talk to Penn Police or their Division of Special Services or the Womens Center, or any program that Ive been involved in, or people that have been involved in supporting me who can corroborate this. Nor is she obligated to meet their expectations of her. So that was, I think later on that specific line came into question. [2], Morrison retained William Margulis, a former member of Whitfield's board who had sent four of his children there, including one of her daughter's classmates, as her attorney. And Im kind of one of the lucky ones where I had really expansive and thorough documentation for all the parts of this story. or in graduate school. RG: And what was the first-generation community like on campus? So they didnt ask about that in this meeting. "Fuck thatI don't have [a family]" she said later. MF: You know, I honestly dont know. Raised in Chesterfield, Missouri, a West County suburb of St. Louis, she attended and graduated from the Whitfield School in Creve Coeur. Mackenzie Fierceton was championed as a former foster youth who had overcome an abusive childhood and won a prestigious Rhodes Scholarship. Have you ever heard of her case? It finds the definition the university's office uses, without that language, as being more determinative; Penn First, the FGLI student organization Fierceton had been involved with, also used that definition on its website for most of the time she was an undergraduate. Jay Caspian Kang sounded similar themes in two different New York Times newsletters discussing Fierceton's story. [2], At the end of 2013, in the middle of her sophomore year, Fierceton was admitted to St. Luke's, where her mother worked, with a head injury. She felt as if it might have been an attempt to intimidate her. What was the response from the readers of the paper? So Im not sure how much could have been missing. And what area of it are you going to explore with your Ph.D.? He died after a medical emergency in a basement of UPenn's Caster Building in 2018. "She was a foster child, but not for long enough. RG: And did they say anything along those lines? By those standards, the standards of real family, not one person I'm related to by blood meets those requirements or even comes close." [2][5] It did not disclose that it had done so until March. And if you read it aloud, its almost exactly the length of the phone call. box, it's like you have to fit yourself in, saying: Are you the first in your family to attend? Fierceton joins Ryan Grim to discuss the saga of her battle with UPenn and why the Ivy Leagueinstitution seems to have so much trouble recognizing the complexity of poverty in America. Our producer is Zach Young. Fierceton began secretly documenting physical and psychological abuse by her mother, a radiologist, during her high school years. The Inquirer story came out in November 2020. So they didnt ask about that in this meeting. And now they have to face the fact that someone who looks like them, who shares all these identities with them, could be the source of all of this harm. [2][4][15], After learning this, Fierceton and a fellow SP2 student began doing research. And now they have to face the fact that someone who looks like them, who shares all these identities with them, could be the source of all of this harm. Fierceton was released after four days. "[27], For the Penn investigation, Fierceton relied on the definition on the webpage for Penn First Plus, the university's support program for FGLI students, which includes the language about the student having a "strained or limited relationship" with the graduate parent. The university writes: After those who knew Fierceton raised questions about her story, it was investigated not just once, but several times, and not just by Penn faculty and staff, but also the Rhodes Trust. But part of it is funding decisions. Im part of a wrongful death lawsuit that was filed in August, 2020. And they were the ones I believe and this is public now because Penn attached it to their response to the lawsuit I filed and I believe they were the first ones to mention that I had gone to private school and that they were questioning if I was low-income. he asked in the first. The department of social services substantiated Mackenzies allegations, as did the Missouri Child Abuse and Neglect Review Board, which is an independent state panel. [2], At the beginning of the next school year, Fierceton was examined by her pediatrician, who noticed a large bruise on her arm but chose not to X-ray it, a decision the doctor later regretted. In other words, if you are parent who says that you are wishing your daughter well and youre telling the authorities that shes just mentally ill and its just a really, really sad and tragic case that shes making up all of these allegations of abuse and throwing herself down stairs, and beating herself up all for cries for help, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera you wouldnt then also pursue a multi-year long effort to destroy her life. The fact that they even challenged that really does expose a lot of whats going on here because I assume in their mind, theyre saying: Well, she went to this private school; she had a nice house; her mom probably drove a nice car maybe you even drove a decent car! The 35-year-old has been hit with two warrants for his arrest. And so, Mackenzie, you and I were just talking offline. I mean, part of it is honestly like its looking at cause we just wanted to be as thorough as possible of when [laughs] I was crying, and then I was crying and taking breaths. So therefore that doesnt fit their understanding of low-income, despite the fact that your mother was no longer your legal guardian, youre a ward of the state. Who would hold party elites accountable to the values they proclaim to have? Picture: University of Pennsylvania/Instagram. There were definitely, Im sure. But it was in the sense of: I didnt recognize myself both because I was beaten and my face was swollen and whatever, and I felt like at rock bottom and broken. MF: So [laughs] I feel like I could go on for hours about that. As youve had time to sort through this, what do you think was driving Penn to go through this process, which they had to know, at some level, would cost them? Fierceton, according to Penn's response, had learned during her parents' divorce how to make calls to the child-abuse hotline and that teachers were mandatory reporters. And I started interviewing people who were in the class where he died and who were in nearby classes where he died, who knew him, and paramedics who were Penn paramedics and just as many people as I could. And I turned over all this information to his widow. And Penn is still claiming that those are fake journals. One of them, to me, felt pretty clear that it was probably from someone in my biological family, because it had photos of me; it had very specific information that very few people would have and I dont think many people would have random childhood photos of me. And to me, I'm like I am a household of one, so I am the only person in my family. She also called herself a first-generation low-income student. And, in this case, almost everyone who was involved in the university administration are upper middle class or very wealthy, highly academically educated white women. So yes, I know that is me. Like questioning: How much blood? Whereas white parents, a lot of times, it is much harder the bar is much higher to remove them from their homes because their whiteness or possibly class privilege or whatever identities that they have that might not fit a social worker or judges or whoevers involved perception of whose kids should be in the foster system. Youre engaged in a lawsuit with Penn. "You can't couch-surf in a pandemic", Norton said. I n November 2020, University of Pennsylvania graduate student Mackenzie Fierceton, 24, won the Rhodes Scholarship to study at Oxford University. Which as Im sure youve learned since is a complete and fundamental misunderstanding of poverty . And so I was like, of course, Im going to respond again. RG: Or whatever our kind of contemporary version of it is. Enough blood? [10], Fierceton, who outside of school had also taken on a volunteer position as a birthing doula, decided during that summer to apply for a Rhodes Scholarship to get a Ph.D. at Oxford University in England, encouraged by a classmate who had just won one himself and was impressed by her activism. First, Morrison had tried to send Fierceton some jewelry during her freshman year and contacted the university to find out how to get in touch with her; when Fierceton was informed of this she said she had a, "Regardless of the actual reason for her name change," Penn's lawyers write in their response to her lawsuit, "Fierceton effectively fastened a buffer of separation between her real life story and the false story she had cultivated for Penn and others. [H]onestly, first-generation is never something I've really identified with fully. She definitely asked some questions about it. I didnt encounter many of them in the two years that I was living in foster families. The notation in her transcript remains. The article by reporter Rachel Aviv was called How an Ivy League School Turned Against a Student, and it tells the story of an extraordinary battle between Mackenzie and the University of Pennsylvania. Its a very different lifestyle. "How much does one have to suffer to have value? She is poor, but she has not been poor for long enough. After a teacher reported what they felt was abuse, a social worker came by and your mother was able to just charm the pants off her. And its funny, cause it just made me so frustrated and I actually went back and read it. I cant say how many questions are left and were close to done. One possible explanation for this depressing story is that Mackenzie Fierceton fraudulently accused her own mother of gravely abusing and attempting to kill her, spent 22 days in the hospital to . Theyre not on a website. In the transcript, I wrote it was really just focused on: What happened the night you went into foster care? Were close to done. So those questions came like later on and were really a part of the initial interrogation. Is that what sent you into a surreal state? Within days of the article being published, the universitys general counsel was in touch with Mackenzies mother. And The New Yorker article also alluded to a few things that you had gotten loose with in a couple of paragraphs. And thats an unfortunate reality so many survivors experience, not having a lot of documentation. This can happen to someone in my community. [2], Almost three months later, The New Yorker ran a longer article about Fierceton, which had taken the magazine eight months to report and fact-check. Like there is more attention to systemic poverty and trying to keep children in their homes to begin with, I would say, which is important, because if you can keep kids in their homes, then theyre not in the system and facing that foster-to-prison pipeline. And they released this quote-unquote report in April of 2021 with their findings. But I got a bit of pressure from Penn to do that. But in this application they had two questions which are to determine financial aid. First of all, thats one box? @RachelAviv for @NewYorker RG: Right. [24], In a statement to The Daily Pennsylvanian, the university said the New Yorker article "did not accurately reflect" the university's investigation of the issues raised by the Rhodes Trust. He was earlier arrested in Chattanooga, Tennessee. A trial was held in early 2019 at which she, Fierceton, a psychologist and a DSS investigator testified. RG: Right. And I dont remember exactly what their statement was, but they disputed it. Or is this something thats been overlooked? Penn, she claimed, had leaked that information to the Inquirer whose editor-in-chief was married to Louisa Shepard, the university's news director, whom she named as a defendant along with Finkelstein, White, and the university's board of trustees. MF: Yeah. And because poverty and abuse are so pervasive in society and particularly in a country that has such a minimal social safety net and has so much violence. [3], Before that happened, Fierceton withdrew from the scholarship on her own. RG: That they would forward charges to the federal government of wire fraud. As in Fierceton's case, it took an hour to remove Driver from the building. I mean, youd been taking loss after loss, despite having the facts on your side. RG: Did they make that threat in writing or was that . They had done their own investigation again, quotes on investigation and then I had submitted over a hundred pages of documents to them. Right. The award brings the number of Penn Rhodes Scholars to 31 since the scholarship's inception in 1902. Laura Flynn is our supervising producer. "[12] Gutmann, soon to step down from her position to serve as U.S. ambassador to Germany, had made increasing the amount of FGLI students at Penn a priority in her previous 17 years as the university's president. We need to stay on task. And all of us, no matter what our situation, are not completely safe from it. RG: So I could imagine why at some point youd be like, you know what, Im just not going to keep taking Ls here. [Laughs.] We started building this, and this is exactly who we built it for. It was: Shes a spoiled little brat. 's office explained the decision to drop the charges against Morrison as based on new evidence that had emerged. And thats actually one of the things that, if there was any doubt whatsoever about this story, in some ways it was settled by that. And we had a fairly lengthy conversation, just kind of going through the ins and outs of my childhood and left it at, she was like: OK, I understand now and Im just going to leave this. In The New Yorker article, one teacher had written: She showed up at my classroom door with a bloodied and battered face and then fainted., And then, Rachel Aviv, the reporter also quotes Sherry McClain, who was a nurse who was assigned to you, she said: She had two black eyes, and her hair was full of blood. "I think that we could contribute to the community, the broader Philadelphia community, and the West Philadelphia community more positively, instead of doing things that are not only undermining them but are actively policing them, and end up creating and perpetuating more violence," she told The Daily Pennsylvanian, the university's student newspaper. RG: Right. "[I]t was probably from someone in my biological family," she told The Intercept, "because it had photos of me; it had very specific information that very few people would haveand I don't think many people would have random childhood photos of me. And then throughout the now a year and a half process [laughs] of different sort of invented processes that happened, eventually the university was like: OK, I guess shes low-income. If you havent read the story yet, I highly recommend pausing this, and giving it a read first, because I try not to go over too much of the same territory in my interview with her. Is that your experience with it as well? And so the fact that shes continued pursuing you to me kind of demonstrates the entire case. "[4][2], Winkelstein followed up with a letter to Elizabeth Kiss, the trust's CEO, alerting her that the university had been investigating Fierceton's story, found it to have seriously diverged from the reality of her life, with the abuse allegations quite possibly fabricated. And then The New Yorker adds in parentheses that a Penn spokesperson says: Yeah, well, thats not the definition that we use. The program's application asked "Are you the first generation in your family to attend college? And if you read it aloud, its almost exactly the length of the phone call. And I didnt get an answer. At first she explained Fierceton's injuries as either having been caused by an intruder or somehow self-inflicted, then said her daughter had fallen downstairs while she was trying to help her get some chewing gum out of her hair. Deconstructed[emailprotected]theintercept.com, Photo illustration: Soohee Cho for The Intercept; Getty Images, AP, This weeks guest on Deconstructed is Mackenzie Fierceton, who was the subject of, The Philadelphia Inquirer erroneously wrote that she had grown up poor. She entered foster care only at the age of 17, after making a complaint of abuse against Dr.. (Photo from Mackenzie Fierceton) Penn student Mackenzie Fierceton was selected as one of 32 American recipients of the 2021 Rhodes Scholarship, becoming Penn's 31st Rhodes scholar since the scholarship's inception in 1902.. Fierceton, a 2020 College graduate, is currently working on her . Fellow students, their parents and Whitfield faculty also noticed signs which led them to suspect abuse. And I think psychologically one way people feel safer about it is to say: No, that happens to other people. [2], Brandt noted that Morrison never asked about, or expressed concern for, her daughter's well-being. But it was definitely something I saw happening sort of this funneling of kids from the child welfare to criminal justice system. RG: as a kid. Mackenzie Fierceton (born Mackenzie Terrell on August 9, 1997; later Mackenzie Morrison, [1] : 63-64, 86 ) is an American activist and graduate student currently studying at Oxford University. The show was mixed by William Stanton. MF: So to me it was pretty clear that it likely came from them. I didnt really know what it was going to be, but I feel like its always good to have someone with you. And it became pretty clear to me that they had spoken to Carrie and or seen medical records. "[2], Near the end of November Fierceton was named one of 32 Rhodes scholars from the U.S. for the year. Mackenzie is currently suing the university. Doctors diagnosed her with epilepsy, telling her the head injuries that had resulted in her earlier hospitalizations may have been a contributing factor to her developing it. Its practically half of Americans, or more. "Once you do something that the University sees as undermining its quest for power and prestige, it will not think twice about discarding you, humiliating you, and retaliating against you, which is exactly what they did" said one SP2 student in support of Fierceton. Although she had not attended an orientation session for first-generation/low-income (FGLI) students she had been invited to, on campus she began attending meetings and gatherings of Penn First, an FGLI student group founded the preceding year to pressure Penn to better accommodate their needs, such as not closing dormitories and cafeterias over breaks since many FGLI students could not, for various reasons, return home during those periods. Fierceton considered dropping out, but "if I truly can't do this, where am I supposed to return to? 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