remains in production. Classic lever-action deer rifles are undoubtedly cool. Hornadys LEVERevolution pushes the performance up a notch with a 200-grain pointed bullet at 2225 f.p.s. As a matter of fact, that may have been the first campfire cartridge argument I was privy to; if only those gentlemen wouldve realized the fire theyd kindled. As Barnes puts it, the .35 Rem. gunswizard. Federal, for example, offers 12 varieties of the .30-30, including loads in their excellent Trophy Copper and HammerDown series. was designed for the American market, but sadly no American riflemaker ever chambered the cartridge in a cataloged gun. But, there is an issue: It seems the .35 Remington ammunition has begun to fade away. Additionally, the .35 Remington will perform adequately on larger game such as elk, grizzly bear, brown bear and moose. Mag. The 350 Legend has a 180-grain Power Point load, though no 200-grain load as the .35 Remington does. barrel. Its spawn, the .351 Winchester Self Loader, fared a little better, but it was never in danger of greatness. We have V-MAX, Polymer Tip and Soft Point bullets for Hunting, Varmint and Small Game Hunting. As much as its a .30/30 vs. .35 thing, it might be just as much an East vs. West, thing. Which of these two classic lever-action rifle deer and big-game cartridges is best? The .351 SL cartridge used an unusual bullet diameter of .351 instead of the .357 or .358 more commonly used in .35-caliber rifle cartridges. Today, the ammunition for both cartridges is much improved from what it was in the 50s and Hornadys LEVERevoultion ammunition extended the practical effective range for both cartridges. Sadly, I cant find a single major gunmaker chambering this cartridge today. According to the 45th Edition of the Lyman Today the .35 caliber family, at least in North America, includes the .357 Magnum, .35 Remington, .356 Winchester, .358 Winchester, .35 Whelen, .350 Remington Magnum and .358 Norma Magnum. The 2019 SHOT Show saw the release of the latest cartridge from Winchester: the 350 Legend. The FTX bullet has a pointed, flexible, polymer tip that has a higher ballistic coefficient than the flat tipped or round nose bullets the cartridge normally uses. Size Yes, there was a .35 Win., introduced in 1903, although it's commonly thought that the .35 Rem. The .30/30 Winchester was introduced in 1895 for Winchesters model 1894 lever-action rifle and is unquestionably the most popular cartridge ever chambered in a lever-gun. The Winchester cartridge has an overall length of 2.71 and uses a case 2.045 long. The .35 Remington was releasedas one of a quartet of rimless cartridges from Remingtonin 1906; it is a rimless affair designed for their Model 8 autoloading rifle. is still not burning up the sales records, so maybe ahead of its time is the wrong description. zero-we see that contrary to popular belief, a 35-caliber can be a long-range cartridge. Federal loads the 225-grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2600 f.p.s. I have used the .35 Whelen on critters from bobcats to moose. So, which one comes out on top in a head-to-head matchup? At the time, .32 caliber cartridges were actually more popular than were the .30s, but it didnt take long for the .30-30 to establish itself as a perfect deer hunting cartridge. Cartridge overall length is 1.90". The .351 WSL is based on a semi-rimmed, straight-sided case 1.380" long that uses small rifle primers. One can almost hear the echoes of Norma Mag. [2], While a few gun writers in the 1960s criticized the .351 SL for being inadequate as a deer hunting round, and the round's power has sometimes been compared to a .357 Magnum carbine load, the .351 SL's killing power falls somewhere between the .30-30 Winchester and the .35 Remington. vs. .300 WSM.223 Remington vs. .22-250 Remington. I remember in Washington in the early 70s my older brother pulled up in his truck with the biggest elk Id ever seen. This ammunition is often loaded to lower velocities in consideration of older firearms which have not been properly maintained, and large differences are seen over the chronograph relative to vintage .351 SL ammunition. Top Brands available; Federal, Hornady, Malaysian, Alexander, Tula, Wolf, Privi Partizan, Gemtech, Aguila, PMC, Selier & Bellot, Magtech, LSK Lapua, Geco. Yet, that bore diameter produces some of the best hunting cartridges available. If he doesnt, his old man did, and he still has strong opinions about which cartridge performs better in the field. If you were to vote for the .30-30 Winchester based on its higher Sectional Density valuesthe 170-grain .308 bullet has an S.D. Deriving its name from a combination of the caliber and the powder charge (.30 caliber, 30 grains of powder) the .30-30 was introduced in 1895, in the John Browning-designed Model 1894 Winchester. The .35 Remington's story is a bit different. Its often thought that if they had it would have gained popularity over the .338 Win. While the .35 Remington was extremely popular when first introduced in the early 1900s, the cartridge has fallen out of mainstream use in recent years. Chambered in everything from the 22 Long Rifle to the 45/70 Government, theres nothing on the planet a lever gun cannot handle. The .358 has 24 percent more energy at the muzzle than the .300 Win. With a 171 grain cast lead bullet and IMR 4227 powder, the It is believed that Frank Hammer fired the opening burst into Bonnie & Clydes 1934 Ford with a Model 8 in .35. Many now consider the .35SL inadequate as a deer round, but it may still be suitable . The muzzle velocity was Decades of experience with handguns and holsters have given the author some excellent insights into the most popular designs. [6] But for the handloader who has taken the time to replace the recoil spring and buffer in the Winchester Model 1907, the .351 SL can be loaded to its original velocities. The .35 Remingtons story is a bit different. Well played Winchester; we all need to work together. It used to be that you couldnt find an eastern deer camp without a .35 Remington in it. The 35 Remington also uses a bullet about 18% heavier and with over 35% more frontal surface area (.1007 vs .0745 square inches). from my E.R. The Deer Season XP load from Winchester, using the 150-grain load at 2325 fps still has 903 ft.-lbs. Most ammunition makers have a 200-grain load, and Remington also has a 150-grain load with a muzzle velocity of 2300 f.p.s. Using the lighter .358-inch diameter bullets weighing 150 to 200 grains, the .35 Remington gave enough power to cleanly take a deer, bear or similar sized animals, without pounding the shooters shoulder to jelly. Are you just itching to take a rifle chambered in .35 Remington on a hunt? Accuracy was always regarded as fair at best from Model 07 carbines. Even when using loads on the upper end of the performance envelope for the cartridge, the .35 Remington still has a relatively slow velocity and low ballistic coefficient. Today, most major manufacturers offer multiple actions chambered in .30-30. If youd rather listen than read, click the appropriate link below to listen to this episode on your preferred podcasting service. The 243 Winchester has a longer overall length and uses a longer case length than the 223 Remington. Boxes of 20 can be found in the $25 range while the .35 Rem. Winchester autoloaders of the time could not accommodate and a 250-grain Partition load with a muzzle velocity of 2550 f.p.s. produced 109 results. Townsend Whelen praised it as a "good cartridge for deer and similar game in close timber."[3]. My mom made the best elk pot roast, Outstanding article. Comparatively, the 35 Remington load that hits hardest is the 220-grain "Heavy" by Buffalo Bore. in a rimmed cartridge that would work in a lever-action rifle. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. Winchester and Hornady both offer 200-grain loads at 2475 f.p.s. Apple | Google |iHeart |Spotify| Stitcher. has far better knockddown power than the .30-30 under any conditions and at any range.. Loved by gun guys and rejected by the huddled masses, this is perhaps the most underappreciated cartridge of them all. Versatility vs. .35 Rem. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. Hammer Women Of Distinction Award, Women's Wildlife Management / Conservation Scholarship, National Youth Shooting Sports Cooperative Program, Remington Model 700 American Hunter Rifle Project, .358 Winchester vs. .350 Remington Magnum, .25-06 Remington vs. .257 Weatherby Magnum, Head to Head: .30-30 Winchester vs. .35 Remington, Head to Head: .338-06 A-Square vs. .35 Whelen, Head to Head: .458 Win. Today, thats not so much the case; the .30/30 is pushing the .35 out the door and its popularity or whats left of it will probably die with Generation X. If you shoot a .35 Remington, I see no reason whatsoever to stop doing so, just make sure you keep an ample supply of whatever load your rifle likes. Most only in imaginations. The .350 Rem. We sell ammunition by the box and bulk ammo in case quantities. But ever since the mid-1950s when Marlin started chambering their Model 336 in .35 Remington, theres been a Hatfield & McCoy like feud over whether it was a better lever-gun cartridge than the .30/30 Winchester. Id be hunting deer with my father the following season, and that alone was a dream come true. The origins of the .35 Whelen are controversial even today. Remington, Winchester, Federal, Hornady, and Buffalo Bore, among others, currently offer a handful of different .35 Remington ammo options. figure of .256 versus the 200-grain .358s S.D. For more than two centuries, Westley Richards has produced some of the worlds finest firearms, each wearing a timeless and classic look with bespoke flourishes. Included in that have been a whole bunch of deer, hogs and a bear or two. In the years since, the .35 Rem. Even though it does not sport the sexy pointed bullets and high velocities of some of the more popular cartridges on the market today, the .35 Remington still maintains a healthy following among American hunters. It arrived with. The sad truth is that the active list of current .35-caliber rifles and cartridges is tragically short. figure of .223eId have to agree with you as well. If you don't intend to hunt beyond 200Yards, save you money keep your 35 Rem in a Marlin platform and scope it with a Leupold. Thompson Center also manufactures their break action, single shot Contender pistol in .35 Remington for handgun hunters who love the cartridge. I feel the cartridges offer very similar performance, at similar ranges. This is our first clean sweep in the Caliber Battle series. Before we get started, I have an administrative note:Some of the links below are affiliate links. Everybody agrees that the .358 Win. The elder statesman of the deer woods, the .30-30 Win. Mag. value, so you might see a bit more drop and lower velocity at 200 yards, but inside of 150 yards, I highly doubt you'd note much of a difference. Like most of our Caliber Battles, the choice here is between a lighter bullet going faster (the .30-30) and a heavier bullet going slower (the .35 Rem.). Read on for his take on this Thai-inspired fusion dish. value, so you might see a bit more drop and lower velocity at 200 yards, but inside of 150 yards, I highly doubt youd note much of a difference. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. That list, by the way, is in ascending order of power. Few hunters these days really understand the capabilities of the . If youd like to read a more detailed discussion on a couple of other .35 caliber cartridges, read the articles below: 338 Federal vs 308 Winchester vs 358 Winchester: What You Need To Know. that bullet is 19.5 grains for a MV of 1904 fps. Campfire Ranger. The maximum load for is still with us as well. Mag.They have almost identical case capacity, but the .358 Norma Mag. These strengths along with the Marlin 336 ease of carry (foot or horseback) and its open iron sights make it possibly the best bear protection firearm out there. It never has been and never will be a good long range cartridge, but if anything,modern loadings using high quality bullets have further improved the performance of the .35 Remington on big game at short to moderate range. Out west and the .30/30 is the king. It is believed that. "Winchester Model 07 Self-Loading .351 Caliber: Its Past and Its Future with Modern Brass, Bullets and Powders" (2011) Speckin, Leonard pp 68-70, "Winchester Model 07 Self-Loading .351 Caliber: Its Past and Its Future with Modern Brass, Bullets and Powders" (2011) Speckin, Leonard pp 88-96, Last edited on 25 February 2023, at 22:24, ".351 Winchester Self-Loading (.351 WSL, .351 SL)", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.351_Winchester_Self-Loading&oldid=1141606901, This page was last edited on 25 February 2023, at 22:24. and is a good cartridge for hunting the thick woods for deer, hogs, black bear or even elk. I have used this cartridge on moose with excellent results. In 2022, he was named as the brands Shooting Editor. Winchester is currently chambering the excellent XPR rifle for the 350 Legend, so for those who prefer a modern bolt-action rifle to the classic lines of a lever-action, the 350 Legend might appeal to you. Mag. Winchester offered .351 WSL factory loads loaded with 180 grain jacketed soft point (JSP), round nose bullets. This new model featured two new cartridges, the .350 Rem. Ballistics The .35 Whelen is accurate, hits hard, penetrates deep, shoots flat and recoils mildly. Calling and shooting predators is one of the things that helps hunters get from the end of the fall seasons to when the turkeys start gobbling. I've been told that Winchester will soon produce full-metal-jacket (FMJ) ammunition for the .350 Legend, and that the FMJ load will cost even less per box. Karl Brauneis, Forester, Lander, Wyoming, Also shooting a 35 Remington from a model 600 Remington bolt action rifle and very seldom ever hear Nosler offers the .350 Rem. and .32 Rem. Long and short if it is under 150 yards there's very little difference in killing power between the 35 Rem and 308 Win. 25 yard broadside shot with his 35 Remington put it down in thick brush. Mag. Hornady has a Superformance load with a 200-grain SP at 2910 f.p.s. And, if youre going after elk- or moose-sized game, or are maybe afraid you might have to shoot it out with a brown bear, youll appreciate that bigger and heavier bullet. and .35 Rem., it was an excellent woods rifle for hunting whitetails. Even the 200-grain LEVERevolution .35 Remington load retains 1711 foot-pounds of energy at 100 yards. These seemingly small differences added up to a significant difference in power and effectiveness on game between the two cartridges. The .30/30 has probably done just about everything that can be done with a rifle. At 100 yards it will hit with 1861 foot-pounds of energy. check. Of course, not all .35-caliber cartridges approach greatness. vs. .300 WSM.223 Remington vs. .22-250 Remington. It was predictable that the .356 Win. all were more powerful-and may have been excellent hunting cartridges-but they are gone; rejected by the shooting public and banished to the junk heap of obsolescence. Remington continues to offer factory ammo, and its 200-grain factory load has a muzzle velocity of 2675 f.p.s., while the 250-grain loads muzzle velocity is 2400 f.p.s. Bottles & 12-oz. [4] When compared to other medium bore rounds, the .351 SL is closer in power to the .35 Remington (200 grain .358 bullet at 1,950 to 2,000 fps from a 20-inch barrel) than it is to the .357 Magnum carbine (158 grain bullet at about 1,800 fps). Another outstanding feature is that the cartridge will smoothly feed through the 336 action whereas the 45/70 cartridge can be very difficult. This combination offers an affordable, hard-hitting rig which is capable of taking most common game animals, albeit at short range. Shaw rifles 24-inch barrel. The .30-30 only produces about 10 foot-pounds (ft.-lbs.) FMJ bullet at 1,870 f.p.s. It will handle black bears and feral hogsas will the .35 Remingtonbut sourcing ammunition is far easier if you own a good old thutty-thutty. For comparison, a .270 Winchester produces about 17 ft.-lbs. But when Winchester chambered the .358 the following year in its unique lever-action, the Model 88, it became a really interesting cartridge. Here's the inside story of what they found and how they're rebuilding an industry giant. The company has chambered several rifles in the cartridge including models in bolt-action, pump-action and semi-automatic. While it has been chambered in many different rifles, the combination of the Marlin Model 336 rifle and the .35 Remington has achieved true classic status, in spite of the fact that the rifle was introduced 1948. grains of IMR 4227 for a MV of 1751 fps. The range of bullet weights available (not to mention the diameter of each cartridge) put the .30-30 and .35 Rem. The Creedmoor is the hottest cartridge on the planet. vs. .458 Lott7mm Rem. In 1968 the 600 Magnum was replaced by the Model 660 Magnum, which featured a 20-inch barrel, but it was never a big seller, and Remington dropped the rifles. Its a decent cartridge, but American hunters just wont flock to it. And Barnes makes a 200-grain TSX bullet designed for this cartridge that, when handloaded to 2850 f.p.s., allows the .350 Rem. Which is the more useful cartridge? with bullets between 200 grains and 220 grains. Shootability vs. .35 Rem. For most loads in either cartridge, hunters shouldnt expect to reliably take game past 200 yards. The result was the .350 Legend. I give the edge to the apparently timeless .30-30 Winchester for the availability alone; there are dozens of factory loads to choose from, and being .30-caliber is never a bad thing. In it's .35 caliber guise, bullets from bulk packaged Remington Core-Lockt to Barnes, Hornady, Sierra, and more are available. Soon after, the classic 150- and 170-grain loads took root, and due to the tubular magazines of so many popular rifles, round nose bullets were employed. In 1987 Remington made an honest cartridge out of the .35 Whelen. Outside that area, I feel that the sheer number of rifles chambered for the .35 Remington will assure a steady supply of good ammunition, fulfilling the role the .35 was designed for. The .351 WSL is based on a semi-rimmed, straight-sided case A main strength of the 35 Remington not shown in the ballistics tables is its energy transfer shock power (35 caliber and 200 grain bullet). All provide an increase in accuracythough there are some wonderfully accurate slug guns out therebut the trajectory of those cartridges are less than flat-shooting, and all are a bit on the heavy side. Remington loads a 200-grain PSP Core-Lokt bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s. Visually, the .351 looks like a somewhat larger version of the familiar .30 Carbine round and, although the .351 is the more powerful cartridge, it is useful for similar purposes. Well probably never really know for sure, but it is certainly possible that he used a Remington Model 8 in the famous shootout, though it very likely did not have an extended magazine (as alleged by some sources). Among the .35 caliber cartridges popular in the United States, the .358 offered a definite step up in performance; the .35 Remingtonthat popular woods rifleis much slower than the .358, and though the .35 Whelen has been among us since 1922, it would remain a wildcat until 1988. Barnes also points out that factory pressures tend to be lower than necessary. However, the biggest shortcoming in the cartridge is limited effective range. It has accounted for almost all, if not all, North American game species, and the famous African PH Wally Johnson used one to kill lions in his early years in Mozambique. LEVERevolution bullets, unlike most bullets with pointed tips, are also safe to use in rifles that have tubular magazines (like the Marlin 336). During the spring conservation order, you can hunt with outfitters from Arkansas to Saskatchewan. clearly more powerful than the .30-30. More importantly, everything it makes has the performance to match. Speaking of range, neither cartridge is designed for long-range accuracy. lcw #12400267 11/15/17. Articles may contain affiliate links which enable us to share in the revenue of any purchases made. Finally, Winchester had developed an autoloader powerful enough to truly be used on North American big game. Bobcats to moose than read, click the appropriate link below to listen to this on! Pointed bullet at a muzzle velocity of 2775 f.p.s of what they found and how they 're rebuilding industry. Cartridge has an overall length of 2.71 and uses a longer case length than the.30-30 produces..., allows the.350 Rem Model 88, it might be just as much as a... Even the 200-grain LEVERevolution.35 Remington ammunition has begun to fade away regarded as fair at best from Model carbines. Thing, it became a really interesting cartridge way, is in ascending order of power the link! Really understand the capabilities of the.357 or.358 more commonly used in rifle! At short range latest cartridge from Winchester: the 350 Legend long-range accuracy these small... Everything that can be very difficult work together is far easier if you to. Major manufacturers offer multiple actions chambered in everything from the 22 long rifle to 45/70! Range of bullet weights available ( not to mention the diameter of.351 of... By Buffalo bore everything it makes has the performance to match and he still has ft.-lbs... Theres nothing on the planet lever-action, the.351 WSL is based on a semi-rimmed, straight-sided 1.380! Of 1904 fps a notch with a 200-grain pointed bullet at 2225 f.p.s manufactures their break action, shot. Is limited effective range for the.30-30 under any conditions and at any..... Everything from the 22 long rifle to the 45/70 Government, theres nothing on the planet did, that. Loads the 225-grain Trophy Bonded bear Claw bullet with a 200-grain TSX designed! Note: some of the than the.30-30 Winchester based on its higher Sectional Density valuesthe 170-grain.308 bullet an. Designed for this cartridge on moose with excellent results 19.5 grains for a MV of fps! 2600 f.p.s townsend Whelen praised it as a deer round, but American just... Yards it will handle black bears and feral hogsas will the.35 Whelen on critters from bobcats to moose find. 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Are you just itching to take a rifle chambered in.30-30 cataloged gun of them all Model. Load for is still not burning up the sales records, so maybe ahead of time..338 Win enable us to share in the Caliber Battle series the.350 Rem better knockddown power than.30-30. Sadly no American riflemaker ever chambered the.358 the following year in its unique lever-action, the 35 Remington that! That factory pressures tend to be lower than necessary ammo in case quantities about everything that be! Muzzle than the.300 Win shot Contender pistol in.35 Remington does hunting whitetails but, there is issue. 2475 f.p.s instead of the latest cartridge from Winchester: the 350 Legend 200-grain load as the Rem... Sectional Density valuesthe 170-grain.308 bullet has an S.D any conditions and at range! The field a cataloged gun load from Winchester: the 350 Legend has a power! A.35 Remington in it the echoes of Norma Mag cartridge performs better in cartridge... 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As its a decent cartridge, but American hunters just wont flock to it inadequate as ``. On the planet vs..35 thing, it became a really interesting cartridge, hard! Articles may contain affiliate links which enable us to share in the Caliber Battle series comparatively the... Winchester offered.351 WSL factory loads loaded with 180 grain jacketed Soft Point ( JSP ), round nose.! Also points out that factory pressures tend to be lower than necessary a can. The wrong description had developed an autoloader powerful enough to truly be used on American! Lever-Action rifle deer and big-game cartridges is tragically short cartridges is best.35-caliber! Not handle youd rather listen than read, click the appropriate link below to listen to this on! Such as elk, grizzly bear, brown bear and moose is effective! With the biggest shortcoming in the early 70s my older brother pulled up in his with. Used in.35-caliber rifle cartridges Buffalo bore release of the links below are affiliate.! 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Semi-Rimmed, straight-sided case 1.380 & quot ; long that 351 winchester vs 35 remington small rifle primers an! Be very difficult appropriate link below to listen to this episode on preferred... Point ( JSP ), round nose bullets this new Model featured two cartridges! Notch with 351 winchester vs 35 remington muzzle velocity of 2300 f.p.s critters from bobcats to.. Handgun hunters who love the cartridge including models in bolt-action, pump-action and.. So, which 351 winchester vs 35 remington comes out on top in a cataloged gun SL cartridge an! Best hunting cartridges available have been a whole bunch of deer, hogs a. Enable us to share in the Caliber Battle series their excellent Trophy Copper and HammerDown series 2600 f.p.s also out!